Proposed revision for calculating weight so that things make sense:
I think trolls have a linear scale of 2, orks 1.5, windlings 1/4. This makes their relative volume scales about 8, about 3, and about 0.02, so the average troll, ork, and windling should weigh 1200 lb, 450 lb, and 3 lb.
Say the weight of a character is generally equal to 15 x their load ST (load St, of course, being ST^2/10). Orks have a starting weight of 19 x load ST (-10 point disadvantage), trolls 27 x their load ST (a -30 point disadvantage) and windlings about 2.5 * their load ST (an 80 point advantage).
This means the averge (clothed) troll weighs in at 1100 lb with a speed of (eep) 3.6 (4.5 mv x 2 linear scale x 2/5 heavy encumberance). He can's ever use Judo or Karate, though there may be trollish variants he can learn.
The average (clothed) ork is about 440 lb with a speed of 6.6 (5.5 mv x 1.5 linear scale x 4/5 moderate encumberance). Orks are damn fast. Upping their weight to 495 (21 x load ST and another -10 points) brings them down to 4.95.
The average (again, clothed, though this might not be the most appropriate number for general use) Windling is about 6.6 lb with a speed of 3.9 (although I'm willing to bet most buy that extra point of DX or HT to push them up to 4.125) (5.25 mv x .25 linear scale x 3 neg 3 encumberance). They might very well have a speed of 7-8 while in the air, I think flying is twice walking speed. Windlings are a lot heavier than they perhaps should be...that's ok, they're a whole lot stronger, too. They must actually be about 1/3 linear scale, or magic in action.
-zebediah
Oops. If trolls are 1.5, then they should weigh in at, say, about 850 lb (if they're at moderate encumberance, load ST times 21) for -20 points and a move of 4.05. Still heavy for their size, though--projected weight off human build is 600 lb.
(Trolls thus range from 550 lb (ST=16) to 1220 lb (ST=24))
Orks would then have a scale ratio of 1.2, and just from volume scale weigh a little under 300. Since they've a load ST of 22.5, they're coming in light at that...bump their weight up to 15 x load ST and they weigh about 350 clothed, with no disadvantage. This can even be increased to 390 if you want them to be chunky...they're still at no encumberance, and have a speed in the 6.6 range. Ooch. If you see an Ork in pajamas it might be a good time to run...though trolls can't use karate, orks sure can.
(Orks thus range from 250 (ST=12) to 550 (ST=18))
Windling's according to ED, weigh about 13 lb, very heavy for their size. That's 65 points of negative encumberance, is in fact about right for them, especially if you factor in their .3 lb of standard clothing. That's a move of 2.6 for a windling on the ground...I think flight doubles it to 5.25 again (convenient, that).
-zebediah
I think Thwak is ST 25 these days. If his weight reflects that, he weighs about 1325. If not, his WSR is down to 19.4...he's down to light encumberance (+10 points) and his speed has gone up by a factor of 4/3, from about 5 yards per second to about 7. Dude. That would be one very speedy troll. If the next two points also went into ST, again with no weight increase, he would be down to a WSR of 16.6, and have a speed of 9.
For compairison, say Captain Donk (who started at ST 20 and I think is still there) put a point into ST without it adjusting his weight, he would find his WSR dipping to 19.04, and owuld also get a helfy move bonus.
A ST 10 human weight 150 lb. Increasing his ST without increasing his weight would give him a WSR of 12.4, putting him at Neg 2 encumberance and increasing his speed by a factor of 1.2, to about 6. Another point would decrese his WSR to 10.4, increasing his speed by 1.5.
The obvious conclusion: if encumberance isn't worth points for you, putting two points into ST will make you move a lot faster. It's like buying extra speed at a rate of about 14 points per, plus the 2 extra hitpoints and a point of damage. Bump that down to 10 points if one point of ST is bought when going up in circle.
So, in the real world, weight scales with volume, which is the cube of linear scale. Strength scales with muscular cross-section, which is the square of linear scale. Windlings, Orks, and Trolls all have much higher ST than you would expect for their size. Windlings should be about 2.5, Orks about 12, Trolls around 15. But that would be realistic, and this is a high fantasy universe. Hence, the actual averages of 5, 15, and 20 (so yes, in some odd sense, Trolls have a pair of built in windlings...). On the other hand, and for the same unrealistic but cinematic reason, weight scales with LST, not with linear scale. So a Windling, Ork, and Troll with LST of 2.5, 22.5, and 40 have no-encumbrance weights of 37.5, 337.5, and 600 lbs. each.
But we want them to be different, because Orks and Trolls should be less agile (and so heavier) than an average human (and Windlings lighter). So we give an Ork a WSR of 17, so it'll be at Light encumbrance all the time, a Troll a WSR of 19, so it'll be at Medium, and a Windling a WSR of 9, so it'll be at Neg 3, and have a bit of margin before it falls to Neg 2.
That means that:
| Race | ST | Load ST | Racial
WSR | Weight (lbs.) | Can Carry |
|---|
| Windling | 5 | 2.5 | 9 | 22.5 | 90 |
| Strong Windling | 10 | 10 | 9 | 90 | 360 |
| Human | 10 | 10 | 15 | 150 | 300 |
| Ork | 15 | 22.5 | 17 | 382.5 | 630 |
| Troll | 20 | 40 | 19 | 760 | 1040 |
| Strong Troll | 25 | 62.5 | 19 | 1187.5 | 1625 |
| In General | ST | LST=ST*ST/10 | WSR | WSR*LST | (45-WSR)*LST |
The 45 above is the threshold for Super-Heavy Encumberance. Unless
you normally have a Move greater than 10, that's the point at which
you can no longer move.
Gulliver suggests multiplying WSR by 5 in the air --- at that point you need to be *really* light before you can take off.
Oh, duh, it says "multiply WSR by 5, then by 1.1 (Enc Factor)" for an **MSR** of just under 50. That makes much more sense. --bts
Comments and suggestions:
In the ED book, windlings weight 13 lb, which is a lot closed to load ST times 5. Yes, this means that a windling takes a lot of weight to crush (100 lb), but they're bugs for heaven sakes, it makes some sense. A kludgekludgekludge on windling flight (and what seems to be the case from our windling's experience in no-mana zones) is that it's (gasp!) Magic. No particular need to obey the laws of physics as we know them, especially since they aren't the laws of physics as we know them. Just rule that windling flight only works at no encumberance or less, and rely on the fact that they move a yard a second, encumbered on the ground, to prevent windlings from actually trying to carry all that stuff. I mean, what, as soon as they hit the first movement modifyer they stop dead in their tracks, right? So they can carry about 14-19 times load ST in stuff before slowing to a bare crawl, just like everybody else. There's a *reason* little windlings have to fly.
Also...strong people get thicker faster than they get taller (thick arm and leg mussles, barrel chests, etc.), so scaling weight with load ST doesn't seem unreasonable for small variations (like, say, the +/- 3 ST we're allowed). This trait is vastly exagerated in trolls and dwarves, who are quite stout for their size (take a look at the pictures). A toll is 1.5 times the heigh of a human, but closer to twice the radius, so you're 150 lb. human scales up to a little less than 150 x 1.5 x 2 x 2 = 900 lb. Also, you list 20 points less for the troll package on this page than the troll page...I figured you were factoring the -20 point disadvantage "Naturally at 21*load st." (this is a disad to reflect reality). Also trolls and, to a lesser extent orks and dwarves, and thicker than their height suggests, and since thickness gives ST, it makes sense for them to be high ST.
And for random flavor...HTML tables are all but impossible to read in edit mode.
--zebediah
Ooh, random idea...Trolls are BIG. the way we've been doing combat maps doesn't actually mechanic this, the models just look bigger. To represent the fact that they've a substantially bigger radius than anyone else, place them at the points where 3 hexes meet? Two trolls in close combat would take up a 4-hex diamond...or would that just overly complicate things? --zebediah
Yes, WIndlings probably should be naturally at 5 or so. Yea, verily. The WSR*5 when flying thing is from the "realistic" section of Gulliver. Other options I've been considering are lower multipliers (e.g. 2 or even 1), and an encumberance cap (Light, or maybe None... which would still give them like 12*LST=30 lbs of weight before they need Extra Effort (for, say, dogs)) --bts